The authorities monitoring RLSH as radicals

Fine then. You said you could verify one of them was approached. Prove it. Otherwise, your just playing games with people.

I do appreciate that you are reading my posts carefully. You have a mind like a squid and I can respect that

I would love to share private correspondences but that would break forum rules. I am not here to prove to you that I am anything at all or that my ideas have value or merit. The reader is the one who decides in a written forum. I am simply posting subjects I think will garner interest and inspire active discussion, preferably on topic. I have an active throng of nay sayers, and I ignore them in turn and bring better content then they offer in my topics and posts.As soon as I speak 3 buffoon leap forward and bellow "Liar!". I will be answering no direct inquiries from questionable sources. Please let's try and stay on topic.

I don't appreciate your evasiveness. Do you dodge every question that's asked of you? This makes people suspicious. Loosen up. Talk like a normal person. Be respectful not just with individuals you may like or admire, but with EVERYONE, especially those who you feel have wronged you or persecuted you.

Respect is NOT earned. It's a gift to be given freely to everyone. Respect is defined as acknowledging that someone or something has worth or is of value. NOTHING is completely, and irrevocably worthless or invaluable. Others have tried to acknowledge the potential worth of your words, but you hide it from them. This is confusing and tiresome and it pushes everyone away. If you are afraid of people and naturally push them away in this manner, just go ahead and say it. I'd understand. Perhaps you may not even be consciously aware of it.

Thanks for the lesson sensei. Please back on topic.

The subject of previous government infiltration tactics in relation to issues like the environment and abortion may now be being used on members of the RLSH community , but with even more free reign than ever before due to the anti terrorism laws now in effect. Does anyone have a story to share about an encounter with a government information gatherer?

The use of the word "may" rather than "is" suggests that this entire post is mere speculation, and not based on any knowledge, firsthand or otherwise. If you know for a fact this is happening, you would have used confident language.

Again if anyone legitimate has anything of value to share please feel free.

Just because you don't know my credentials doesn't mean they don't exist. You can find my government contractor information on Dun & Bradstreet, my Investigator's License has been in good standing for over 25 years, and my legal degree (although not a Juris Doctor) has been supplemented by over 400 Continuing Legal Education credits. I have patrolled for nearly three decades, have trained at the police academy, and have consulted with local politicians on various community projects. I have close contacts to my state Senate, the mayor, two former governors, three city council members, and have worked with the Police Advisory Board. My patrols are not only well-funded, but my activities are known -- although not endorsed -- by local authorities.

I know different. Again all opinions are welcome. Even wrong ones.

If you can't handle honest answers, don't ask the questions.

One method is entering a community, making themselves an integral and needed part of an organization, discrediting and removing any key members. Marginalizing and alienating the rest. This was used on black rights activists. Feminists. Suspected political dissidents. The term COINTELPRO was often used to describe these operations.

COINTELPRO operations were condemned for Constitutional violations and ceased in 1971. Government agents are not insinuating themselves into RLSH teams. I myself began researching RLSH in 2009 as part of an assignment to assess the community as it existed at the time, observe certain core members, and draw conclusions as to where the community was headed and, more specifically, how the community would affect MY patrol effectiveness. This is not secret information. I have said all of this in the past. Look at my old, old, ooold posts and you will find that I predicted the rise of a Phoenix Jones-like figure within RLSH, as well as the ultimate fragmentation of the community. And I am not the only one who has done this. Many RLSH, for instance, have made predictions that Phoenix would end up hurting people due to poor training and preparedness. And he has, and continues to do so.

I can verify that one of the heroes on the picture for this website told me firsthand he was approached by government observers.

I have been approached by "government observers" many times. They are called police officers, and they are as naturally curious as anyone else. Heck, I don't even wear a costume, per se, so I can only imagine how much more often someone like Dark Guardian or Urban Avenger must get approached. But the idea that boogeymen are lurking is not logical, for the reasons I stated earlier.

sorry, didn't read all that. Just saw the name and said "fruit from the poison tree" . Anyone got anything to add?

I read it all. Good stuff. Your loss.

It wasn't really for you. Think more deeply.

Sorry 2 0 4, that wasn't directed to you

No worries haha.

Many members of the old earth agents forum had been environmental activists before becoming RLSH and had plenty of interactions with agents provocateurs at rally's and protests. Sorry but yesterdays common knowledge must be a mystery of the deep past for you new guys. Ill try and keep you up on things as best I can.

Interactions at rallies and protests do not equate to government infiltration of RLSH groups with the purpose of breaking apart such groups. Interactions of the past are not indications of present infiltration. If this is the information you rely on to show such infiltration, then your proof falls dreadfully short of the standard necessary to be considered credible.

So a historic pattern is not a good indicator of a continued practice? 

Just a flat no? You sound obtuse.

That is more or less correct, from an investigative perspective.

Past actions are certainly valuable insofar as they can give you insight into how to go about investigating the possibility of such continued actions, but a past action does not provide proof of a present action. That is to say, you could not get a search warrant or file an information or other charging instrument against a person or organization by using past actions as proof of probable cause. It is not good investigation to draw conclusions based on anything other than solid evidence. Everything else is speculation. 

While I concede you may have reason to suspect that government infiltration is at least possible, although I still don't find it likely, you have no proof that meets any standard of credibility, nor have you drawn any logical conclusions based on evidence.

If you would like advice on investigative techniques for finding such proof, you can always ask.

Thanks but I would probably seek qualified professional help if I needed it. So your opinion on the subject is a flat no, The government has never at any time or now done any domestic spying ever and then you put head in sand and hum and try not to look highly suspect...

You are the LAST one who should be accusing ANYONE of being highly suspect. I'm losing patience with you. Normally I'd be yelling and swearing by now. Seriously, trust me, you're just screwing yourself over and digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole and you probably won't realize it until it's too late. I believe there's a hero in everyone, and there's a hero in you too, but I haven't seen him yet.

Thanks ya super swell guy. Totally not a menacing weirdo that would use any methods at his disposal to hurt strangers people , this guy is a real salt of the earth, not a  HIGHLY suspect authoritarian that uses dishonest discourse and never posts useful cogent information that is on topic. 

Please go on about the hole I am digging and your rage?

Ok go get your rage under control. A man like you that can't properly defend himself physically should be careful about stress. Go lie down and take an aspirin. Let the physically fit and combat ready generation of tomorrow take up your fallen soiled mantle and carry it forward proudly. You need rest.

I'm flawed just like everybody else. No; I wouldn't use any method at my disposal to hurt people. There was a time that I would've, but kids need a positive rolemodel; they can't look up to a killer. We as superheroes have to hold ourselves to a higher standard than others. A skill that is required for this, is introspection; self-reflection. Would you carry-on this way in front of a small child? What about your mother? Would your father be proud of your actions? I ask myself these questions every day now. Perhaps you should ask them to yourself as well; you might find out something important about yourself that you didn't know before, and knowing is half the battle.

Wise words friend.
Understanding is key.
Success is one thing.
Some things are more important.

Friend, It has been a blast.
Really though,
All joking aside
Unfortunately it is time for me to 
Dream 


Good night "friend"

Savage:

I don't think you understand my view on this subject. I'm not entirely sure you understand your own.

Here is an example of invalid reasoning:

Terry has robbed 10 banks.
Terry lives next to a bank.
The bank Terry lives next to gets robbed at gunpoint for $5000 one day.
Terry robbed the bank.

Although we could reasonably investigate Terry, we cannot conclude his guilt merely because of his past practice.

Here is an example of valid reasoning:

Jim has robbed 10 banks.
A bank near Jim was recently robbed by gunpoint of $5000 in $20 and $10 bills, stuffed into a blue backpack.
Jim is carrying a blue backpack stuffed with 20s and 10s.
Jim robbed the bank.

Even though this logic is not airtight, it is enough to compel a search warrant which will likely uncover the gun. If the serial numbers of the money were recorded, this is additional evidence that Jim committed the crime.

You are using this invalid argument to not only disprove one case but to invalidate even the concept that it is remotely possible. 
Sounds like slanted authoritarian drivel. Insipid. Miss me with that noise clown. 
Dishonest as usual. That is a serious character flaw in most walks of life. 
Apples and oranges, back on topic please children.

Savage wrote:

Dishonest as usual. 

You said you were going to bed 15 minutes ago.