Nemesis' SUMMER CHALLENGE

I haven't really understood why from the beginning the point about criminology can't just be made by making it directly.

But I also don't see where criminology should be a controversial or offensive subject to discuss here, either. It seems like a fitting topic for discussion, though not as if it's one that's likely to "save us all" or turn us from sleepwalkers into mystically enlightened crimefighters.

And we don't really have a standard for people to prove themselves. I don't think proof in the community means much beyond the circle of people you really know. I personally just don't think it's doable for the community as a whole.

Nemesis, I think your attitude is what people are consistently reacting to, not the content of what you say. There better things to worry about all around -- going for being upset by your attitude and for bothering to display the attitude so much.

Honestly, I forgot. Then I got sick of the forum which, when joined with my other projects, made forgetting that much easier.

Eon,

If it's my attitude, why is Crossfire screaming about the rule that I can't post about criminology?

I'm not going to break rules and get banned because anything I post will be deleted anyway. But when asked, as I was in this thread, I will explain why that is the case, and what my opinion is on why rules are the way they are.

There's only one reason to be threatened by the discussion of criminology.

It's a very simple thing. If you want to make a case for how integral criminological studies are to what we do, then make your case, don't ask others to do it for you.

When you have an amount of people expressing concern about your attitude (and in this case there are a few, myself included) you might address that rather than going back repeatedly to someone's unrelated argument - More specifically, yes. Crossfire is talking about whether you can post things about criminolgy or not. meanwhile the rest of the community is telling you to your virtual face that your attitude needs an adjustment. You might start there.

No one here would say a thing if you would actually post a thread where you explained in detail your whole criminology argument. In fact if you made it a really good argument, you would most likely receive heavy accolades from everyone here. And that's no joke because we, and I believe that I'm speaking for everyone here, actually really would like some genuine contributions from you.

Let's be real now, Nemesis. Up to this point your general presence in this community has been condescending, confrontational and quite rude. You've really contributed nothing rather than to be contradictory in regards to pretty much everything you've commented on and controversial in everything.

If you really want to be a productive member of this community and genuinely desire to make things better, then make an honest effort to contribute. If you want to present an idea, do the work, don't ask others to do it for you under the guise of a challenge.

By now reading this you are no doubt already formulating a dismissive insulting response or a comment pointing fingers at those who are "out to get you". I ask that you pause a second and re-read this post. I'm being as real with you right now as anybody on this site has been. This community has an issue with you, Nemesis. You have a bad attitude, and if you would change that, the rest would probably resolve itself.

Think about it.

Well, the name is "Nemesis" afterall, so we can't really be too surprised about being confrontational.

Hey Proteus, just wondering, are other RLSHs doing your martial arts training as well? Your parkour? Any other training?

This isn't me asking for others to do things for me. I have a degree. I already have this education.

What you need to consider is that you, and every little crimefighter running around with you, have skipped the basic foundation from which everything else builds. No law enforcement or crime prevention organization would skip this step. It's why RLSH aren't what they could be.

I'm not interested in accolades. Obviously, I don't care who likes me.

What you need to consider is that you, and much more importantly the so called leaders, skipped the basic foundation of crime prevention, which is the sociological study of crime. You are practicing medicine with no med school, and are trying to do calculus without getting a handle on algebra.

And the ONLY reason (though the excuse they'll use is I have an attitude, as if this in any way changes the information provided through peer reviewed study) is because once you realize this crucial step has been skipped, you'll be left wondering how the hell is it that the guys teaching you, leading you, showing the way, missed it as well.

Think about that...because I don't give a damn about hurt feelings in here, I give a damn about hurt people out there.

Nemesis, I think I've discovered your misunderstanding. The basis of rlsh work is not crime prevention, but crime intervention. There's a world of difference between the two goals, as I am sure you know. And I say that with no sarcasm, and with respect for your intelligence. I also mean no disrespect to rlsh who choose to fight crime by doing nightly patrols. If crime prevention was the goal, then I'd have to agree with Nemesis that education of the causes of criminal behavior would be integral to your success, but intervention does not require such rigorous study of this discipline. Most rlsh are not developing diversion or outreach programs, or doing gang outreach and getting at risk youth off the streets or off drugs, etc. Stopping crimes in progress and deterring crimes through physical presence is noble and necessary, but it's not the same as prevention of crime.

"Well, allow me to retort."

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Hey Proteus, just wondering, are other RLSHs doing your martial arts training as well? Your parkour? Any other training?

No, and if I wanted to show someone on here to execute a specific move, I'd show it myself. I would NOT post a thread "challenging" others to learn said move and demonstrate it for the community to show that I know it.

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This isn't me asking for others to do things for me. I have a degree. I already have this education.

Exactly my point. You "have a degree" and you "already have this education"... So why aren't YOU making these points to the community, rather than "challenging" others to post essays to show how much you know? As most here remember this thread came about as a result of someone suggesting you present this information to the community.

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What you need to consider is that you, and every little crimefighter running around with you, have skipped the basic foundation from which everything else builds. No law enforcement or crime prevention organization would skip this step. It's why RLSH aren't what they could be.

Again, that's pretty much my point, and one which you yourself seem to have completely overlooked. Time and again you stress the importance of this information yet it seems to be completely beyond you to even express just what it is about this information that makes it so important to what we do. Please enlighten us, rather than just saying it is so and trying to give out writing assignments.

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What you need to consider is that you, and much more importantly the so called leaders, skipped the basic foundation of crime prevention, which is the sociological study of crime. You are practicing medicine with no med school, and are trying to do calculus without getting a handle on algebra.

Ok, here's where the wake up call comes in. We aren't police or military. We're not criminal psychologists or trained profilers or police investigators. But then again how many people out there are? We actually have less authority than your standard security guard. What we are able to do is come to a victim's assistance, call the police when something highly illegal is going on, raise awareness on a variety of subjects, charity work, graffiti clean up, outreach, yadda yadda. We are the boy scouts. We are the neighborhood watch. We are average, everyday people who have stepped up in an effort to make ou respective communities better. PLEASE tell me... exactly... how criminology figures in... don't be condescending, don't tell me for the hundredth time that I don't have the base blah blah. Don't "challenge" someone else to explain it. YOU explain it... I mean actually.... EXPLAIN it...

EDIT: Yeah, what Gauge said.

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And the ONLY reason (though the excuse they'll use is I have an attitude, as if this in any way changes the information provided through peer reviewed study) is because once you realize this crucial step has been skipped, you'll be left wondering how the hell is it that the guys teaching you, leading you, showing the way, missed it as well.

Ummmm... no. No one is teaching me. There are tons of experienced people who who's experience is beneficial to my ongoing learning. Albert Einstein failed math in school. Does that mean I should disregard his theory of relativity? There's no conspiracy here, Nemesis. There's no "cover up" going on here. There are people here who are or have been cops. Are they "missing this crucial step" as well? If that's the case, then what does that say about actual law enforcement? I mean if it's that important for people on here to be "teaching" this, then why aren't you? once again, all we hear is talk about how important it is, but there's no presentation of actual information.

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Think about that...because I don't give a damn about hurt feelings in here, I give a damn about hurt people out there.

Really? Are you sure about that?

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I'm not interested in accolades. Obviously, I don't care who likes me.

I personally highly disagree with this. I mean a BIG "I don't think so", but I'm going to digress. I'm actually trying to help you out here. Hopefully you have actually paid attention to what you were reading here. I really want the point to sink in.

BTW, well said, Gauge.

Thanks, Proteus. I'd be happy to hear any relevant criticisms Nemesis may have on crime intervention. Maybe a challenge could be issued.

Nemesis wrote:

Eon,

If it's my attitude, why is Crossfire screaming about the rule that I can't post about criminology?

I'm not going to break rules and get banned because anything I post will be deleted anyway. But when asked, as I was in this thread, I will explain why that is the case, and what my opinion is on why rules are the way they are.

There's only one reason to be threatened by the discussion of criminology.

Im not screaming...Im pointing out that you were told that until you verified your actual activity as a member of this community that you were to STOP trying to position yourself as a leader, instructor, or whatever...and you were told to stop this project because it was nothing more than you seeking others to write your term papers for the upcoming semester (hence the deadline)

The discussion of criminology is more than fine, but you are an unverified individual claiming unverified training and abilities and demanding that everyone measure up to your unverified standard...and you were told to stop

Again...if you dont like the rules you have every right to leave...and if you want to whine about the rules I have every right to speak down to you like the whiney little spoiled brat you are acting like!

If you want to discuss this...call my show one Sunday...prove that you ARE a female and not who we already KNOW you to be...put me in my place...I'll accept your call from a 111 area code so nobody has to know where your momma's basement is located...but stop acting like such a douchebag until you confirm something about yourself besides your haughty attitude!

Nemesis wrote:

Hey
This isn't me asking for others to do things for me. I have a degree. I already have this education.

And why do we ask that you verify things? Lets check the forum rules.

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#4: If you claim credentials that you don't have, or in any way endanger another by giving advice that could cause harm to someone using said fake credentials, you may be banned.

Seems to me that until you verify that you've done something more than come here and try to stir things up that you are presenting potentially fake credentials...prove me wrong.

In all fairness, rule #4 does not specify or imply that credentials must be verified. It merely directs forum users to not claim credentials they don't possess, under pain of banishment. Perhaps a procedure could be established for verifying such claims. As yet, however, Nemesis hasn't really given any advice so far that would be beyond the layperson's ability to provide. Anyone with the least bit of common sense could give the same advice, though they'd likely do so in a more tactful manner.

Actually Crossfire, (and Proteus) that's the whole point of the challenge. I'm not breaking the rules because I'm encouraging the discussion of peer reviewed studies pertaining to a legitimate scientific field. That is why I'm not preaching what I've been taught, Proteus, because I attempted to enlighten in a previous discussion, and was informed of this rule (which I have yet to see be enforced in martial arts, fitness, or other training sections, but hey who's counting).

As for crime prevention vs intervention, bull. A better understanding of crime will give you a greater chance of encountering, thus intervening on criminal acts. Your other course of action is to wander aimlessly.

Look, maybe most RLSH could give a damn, but that's the problem isn't it? Sure some groups like the NYI are being innovative, but it's almost entirely guesswork, none of it is rooted in a social science that conveniently already exists!

You can choose to be content with knowing you are good. That I cannot understand. If we have no noticeable affect, what justifies our existence? Self esteem drives a lot of it, and that's worthless to me.

There are crimes occurring every moment. If you patrol, and encounter nothing, it doesn't mean you've succeeded. It means you were looking in all the wrong places.

Even police don't happen upon many crimes in progress. Unless it's a spontaneous encounter like a street fight, which is usually not premeditated, most crimes are committed with a certain level of discretion. Crooks don't want to get caught, so they take measures to not be seen. You don't need to study criminology in depth to know where to patrol. Hit the high crime districts where half the muggings take place and you're bound to encounter some trouble eventually. It's just the odds of being in the exact spot of the occurrence at the exact time are microscopic, no matter how much criminal theory you apply.

Umm.... hi... Just a few things...

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Actually Crossfire, (and Proteus) that's the whole point of the challenge. I'm not breaking the rules because I'm encouraging the discussion of peer reviewed studies pertaining to a legitimate scientific field. That is why I'm not preaching what I've been taught, Proteus, because I attempted to enlighten in a previous discussion, and was informed of this rule (which I have yet to see be enforced in martial arts, fitness, or other training sections, but hey who's counting).

I'm having a little problem with this. Since you have a degree in this field, then you are obviously qualified to talk on this field and therefore that forum rule does not apply. It's just that simple. I think the issue thus far has been the fact as of yet, you haven't presented a scrap of actual information, but rather you've continually chastised the whole community for not pursuing this field of study.

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As for crime prevention vs intervention, bull. A better understanding of crime will give you a greater chance of encountering, thus intervening on criminal acts. Your other course of action is to wander aimlessly.

I apologize, I truly do, but this makes absolutely no logical sense at all. As gauge said, even the police rarely come upon a crime in progress, and it doesn't require a degree in criminology to know when someone is up to no good. That's more of an instict/experience sort of thing, and that requires being out there.

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Look, maybe most RLSH could give a damn, but that's the problem isn't it? Sure some groups like the NYI are being innovative, but it's almost entirely guesswork, none of it is rooted in a social science that conveniently already exists!

Once again most RLSH might actually give a damn if you would actually present a good argument for it. Ask any member of the NYI and they can point out of a crowd the individuals who are most likely to be up to something illegal. That's called experience.

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You can choose to be content with knowing you are good. That I cannot understand. If we have no noticeable affect, what justifies our existence? Self esteem drives a lot of it, and that's worthless to me.

Let's start with the last bit, there... No noticeable effect? What justifies our existence? Let's use the documentary for an example, shall we? Zimmer, with the NYI help an injured man back home. The NYI take the keys away from a drunk driver, keeping him and others safe that night. In San Diego, a large group of RLSHs hand out food and supplies to over two hundred homeless. Mr. Extreme posts fliers with information about a serial groper all over town... I'd say there's a noticeable effect there which completely justifies why we do this. I find it a shame that that's so hard for you to understand.

Oh, and notice how I just provided actual information to back up my argument? Yea, that's how it works.

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There are crimes occurring every moment. If you patrol, and encounter nothing, it doesn't mean you've succeeded. It means you were looking in all the wrong places.

Maybe. That's absolutely possible. It could also mean that your presence alone is a crime deterrent.

Look, Nemesis, I see a lot of excuses and negativity coming from you. I know there are those on here who are demanding that you provide credentials or some other proof that you are who you say you are. I'm not and never will simply because I know that's not necessary. All it requires is that you actually, for once, actually show that you do indeed know what you are talking about. That simply means that you, Nemesis, need to actually present some actual, verifiable information to the community. As of yet all you have done is complain about what you claim we don't know and and talk down to the community in whole as a result.

Nothing in that shows that you have the slightest clue what you are talking about. All it shows is that you are a bitter armchair hero who wants a whole community to blindly follow you as some ultimate crime pundit without actually giving any information at all.

It's knowledge that gives you power, Nemesis, not the claim to have it.

But again, you can prove me wrong at any time.

If Nemesis knew a bit more about stigma/labeling theory, he/she'd know what he/she's doing to herself here. Nemeses don't seem like an educated person to me. More like a drop-out. Taking an higher education require qualities Nemesis has failed to show any of us. It's impossible to learn anything when all you try to do is to teach.

I'd love to point out everything that's wrong with your statement about crime intervention, Proteus, but I actually cannot access my deep reservoir of criminological knowledge without Crossfire banning me for it. Ask him, he'll tell you so.

Dogman, it's cute you have wikipedia, but you clearly lack a deep understanding of labeling theory if you think it applies to having some people on a forum dislike you.

Also, the spelling and grammatical rape you have just inflicted upon the English language hardly puts you in a place to criticize others.

It's also impossible to learn when you'd rather not face that there's much to be learned. It's much easier to already qualify yourself a superhero, damn the education, training, hardship or sacrifice. Of course you'll be remembered for about ten minutes after "retiring" that way.

Actually you have been banned every time for insulting others and acting like a douche...Its up to Anonyman to ban you for pretending to have credentials that you do not have.

Well, credentials I do have, but won't reveal personal information to confirm. Same effect, regardless, not allowed due to threat of permaban.

Ok, this is my third attempt. Third time's a charm, right?

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I'd love to point out everything that's wrong with your statement about crime intervention, Proteus, but I actually cannot access my deep reservoir of criminological knowledge without Crossfire banning me for it. Ask him, he'll tell you so.

Ok, here goes: I am officially going to offer up a get out of jail free card.

ATTENTION FORUM MODS AND ADMINS:

I AM ATTEMPTING TO GLEAN REAL VARIFIABLE INFORMATION FROM NEMESIS FOR THE SAKE OF ENDING THIS... WHATEVER IT IS. SO PLEASE, JUST THIS ONE TIME, PLEASE ALLOW NEMESIS TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT AS TO WHY WE ARE DOOMED TO FAIL AS RLSHS DUE TO OUR IGNORANCE CONCERNING CRIMINOLOGY BASED ON ACTUAL INFORMATION.

I THANK YOU.

There, I don't think anyone at this point would be opposed to finally giving you a platform to make your case.

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Dogman, it's cute you have wikipedia, but you clearly lack a deep understanding of labeling theory if you think it applies to having some people on a forum dislike you.

Also, the spelling and grammatical rape you have just inflicted upon the English language hardly puts you in a place to criticize others.

Umm.. Please explain to me how this helps your case in any way, shape, or form?

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It's also impossible to learn when you'd rather not face that there's much to be learned. It's much easier to already qualify yourself a superhero, damn the education, training, hardship or sacrifice. Of course you'll be remembered for about ten minutes after "retiring" that way.

You see, this statement is one of many statements made by you that shows that you really know nothing at all about this community. Statements like this make it look like you just like the sound of your own words, or the sight of your own text, as the case may be.

In any case, I'm asking for the third time now, Nemesis. Quit with the jibber jabber and get to it.

Again, PLEASE, Nemesis, set aside the condescension and actually give us something real. This is your opportunity to actually SAY something.

I'll tell you for the third time, not unless I hear from a mod I won't be banned.

Go ahead Nemesis and impress us...you have one free pass...use it well

Nemesis, this seems like a very good opportunity for you to put your education to use in a way that could affect how people approach the crime fighting aspect of rlsh. I'm interested in hearing your views on criminology and how they apply to rlsh patrols.

I pretty much agree with Nemesis' points about using existing knowledge to try and make our efforts better.

The only thing I disagree with all around is the antagonism, which is attributable in part, but not completely by any means, to Nemesis' attitude on this board to date.